This gets talked about all the time in game, even admin state they are broken yet no one wants to nurf them due to player outcry.

Putting this here so people can add there thoughts.
TBH dont understand how if a class is OP its not nerfed, screw general outcry.
Things to point out:

Necromancers should be called DeathKnights, they are Fighters with undead pets, not spell-casters.

Necro Sword - Adds +10 sword and +20 Blind.
+20 blind....Ok, i mean its a 120base skill lets give them more mod, but ok..
+10 sword is STUPID Why does a necro (SWORD SKILL COSTS THE SAME TO RAISE AS A TEMPLAR) have +10 sword.
They have the same base 105 sword as a Warrior yet they get an additional +10 AND it has more WV....
Barb King Sword is 56WV, Necro sword is 60WV (Why do they have more WV? this is a big F U to Warriors).

Necromancers Amulet
+20 Resist , +20 Immunity, +30 Med/Rest/Regen
Change this to 15 Resistance? it adds the same resistance as the Prison Amulet and can be used at master serg? why..
+20 Immunity..... Why?! Ankh/Cave adds resist only, why is this soooooooo high on stats??
Sure you want them to have beefy regeneration so +30regen but jesus..

Stats/Skills:
Immunity/MS/Dispell - Why do they have all 3 of these.. Immunity was to cover classes that didnt get enough Armor value (got wrekt by blast).
Heck look at poor Sorcerers, they have none of all 3... (bout time Sorcs get dispell).
Necros should either lose MS or Immunity since no one wants to remove Dispell (so they can Dispell there GCs).
They still have a pet who can heal them in 90% of content, and if we look at Sorcs/Warriors they have more AV then those classes with both of these options AND Dispell.
They also have Blind and Stealth which is used to counter spellcasters.
Immunity is not needed..

Costs of Skills:
Have been a Col Necro with 100base sword, crystal armor and a Major Gen Undead Pet.
Sword/DW is far to cheap, Necros already dont raise spells as their GC Spells them.
But why do they have Harakim/Templar skill costs, for Blind etcc sure but most should be ~Merc costs.
Id like to see a Brig Warrior in Crystal Armor 105sword/105DW.

Have played all classes (except Sorcerer) now to Lui Gen+.
Already my Lui Gen Necro just destroys my Noble seyan in stats.
Most Necros use a RPOT for UW Barons (pre noble).


What i believe should happen to Necros Summarized
* Remove the +10 Sword from the Weapon
* Remove the +20 Immunity from the Amulet
* Reduce the +20 Resistance to +15 on the Amulet
* Increase Non-Necro specific skill costs like Sword, DW etc to Merc Levels.
* Remove EITHER Immunity or Magic Shield from the class (would say Immunity) - they have Blind to reduce spells (dont get me started on 105 C2), dispell to remove curses once free, a heal pet gc incase they get stunned/blasted etcc..


Optional Extras:
* Move the +20 Blind from the Sword to the Amulet. - Makes more of a choice late game when they change amulets.
* Reduce Bless to 75/90? - Unsure on this one yet, would do the above mentioned before this change to see how they are.
* Reduce Blind cost to say 25mana and then take away Conc? This puts them in a even playing field with C2 to Warriors/Seyans. (**This would be a big change**, unsure on results, maybe just reduce Conc to ~15base?**).

Open to all opinons on why these are good/bad ideas.
Ive spoken with Many Necros and they also believe they are just godtier.
I understand the idea of 'bring every other class up' but that will just make the rest of the games content a joke.

My two cents.. the more stats I can get the better. A Necro is an Arch of an Arch character, and I look to it having better stats, that's why I sacrificed my Knight Warrior, for the chance to have a better character overall going forward. I think once you start downgrading stats on a Necro, you risk bringing them back down to why people with Warriors complain that they need higher stats. As I play only one character and my main one is a Necro, I am not in favor of downgrading my character. I don't discount any of your opinions and appreciate the conversation, just me personally not a fan because it's what I play the most, so I'm biased. Look forward to hear the others opinions that matter more than mine.

100% Agree with that point.

Once they get brought down people wont be complaining as much as they will be similar.
Using a reason 'because im this OP class, dont change it' is a bad ideology
Eventually everyone will just be Necros.

Going Necro as a warrior because they where so much better, if they are brought inline to be 'on par' (maybe a tiny bit better), then you would have more of a choice rather then being forced into it.

Well, first of all, I would suggest to compare a necro to a RB char. Sure, some powerplayers can go necro at reasonably low rank. But others can't.

I think there is always a difference between classes. And that should be a good thing. You get a different way of playing.
How fair is an AH, with massive curse, c2 and stun, being able to dodge many fights? Or compulse the monsters and transfer them?
Oh, and they do have B2 and a GC.
On many occasions a necro can survive well, yet an AH can be much quicker.
And how fair is assasssinate on a ninja? Or warcry going thru walls?
How fair is that blacksmith profession on a seyan'du gets higher values than a necro?
Or sorcs getting highest spell power?
I am for embracing the differences and would like to focus on every class adding something to the game.

Back to necros:
I would suggest those who aren't powerplayers could use a necro like this, so they can finally do things they normally can't get working on another char.
Yes, necros are quite strong in various ways. And yet I feel they kill kinda slow. If that's the compromise, then that's fine.
Necros have been nerved before. And to some extend they could be nerved again. But I am against it.
I am no powerplayer. I can't squeeze out that extra bit needed to survive at places that are difficult. And with me many others.
With a necro non-RB I could finally go to some places that were quite off limits to me.
And with a necro RB1 I can do it comfortably. With prison gear, dragon gear, all kinds of amulets and ankh belt. And getting those things has been hard work too.
If that wasn't possible for me, I would have quit this game months ago. Begging to go to prison to finally get some special gear and dying again at an ending would make me give up.
I assume I am not the only person who feels it that way. At all.
Oh, and yet some moments in RD2, but also visiting champs and giant barb are a challenge...or an appointment to failure to me.

There are some odd things that I notice. A necro non-RB will max out most important things quite low. Unlike many other races. Well, or high, when you count the exp from pre-necro.
At RB1 you will still be working on useful fighting things at Earl. Can't tell you about RB2 yet That's different. Mainly because you don't use that many things.
Bare in mind that maxing brave is quite a pain already. At RB1 you skip working on regen and raise heal. Saves you 8M or so.
An AH without exp in compulse or poison would max out a couple mil lower. They don't need it, but it is counted for maxing useful things. Maxing out skeleton companion on a necro isn't counted, and yet it could or should be considered as a fighting item.
My AH has a long way to go on enhance, protect and MS. The last 60 points were quite irrelevant at kinda all I do. And yet they are counted. Same with meditate and concentrate, can keep it lower and waste less exp. Or raise it and keep firing C2 and poison.
So simular to necro being nerved, I assume AH gets less enh, prot, ms, meditate, concentrate and so on to make things balanced again?

Then one more thing. Why would it be bad that a necro is somewhat stronger? Or, even a bit more stronger than that?
Compare playing a necro with a sorc, a seyan'du, an AH, an AT, a ninja, a warrior. All completely different.
That should be the strength and fun of this game. You might have played the game till the end, finishing every quest with your necro or such. And then you can enjoy it again on a different class.
I say, embrace the difference and enjoy it.

If the goal is not to balance the classes and let them roll content then why not fix other classes without balancing..
Give Sorcs dispell and MS.
Give Warriors Warcry / 105Bless (leaving Enhance/Prot 60).

Is the conversation more around balancing the game or around giving more incentive to play other characters for late game? If we are talking about balancing, then I would think every character needs to be looked at, I mean I could argue a Seyan at 90 base everything is OP. When I came back to the game, I liked Warrior and I was happy to play with the Character. As time went on, my type of gameplay I realized that other characters things would be easier on and even looked at Necro and said dang it's alot like what I have but better. Some people said, Warrior is OP with SS gear and Prison Gear and etc, but the way I like to play I don't like using SS gear, and Prison was hard without help and just felt like I was always asking someone to help me do stuff with a Noble character. Again, for me to continue playing the game has to have incentive, and the Necro character was that for me. The same as I don't have Titanium gear and better stats, so now I play for RB1. Yeah I look at other classes and think, man I would be unstoppable with Stun/B2/Compulse, but then remember that's what makes each character unique, and part of the fun is finding other players with different characters they enjoy that help compliment each others game play. At the end of it all, if I wanted to only play Warrior/Sorc, I think they probably could use some help, but leave it to the community to work on building them for success, not balance out by removing from other characters.

So essentially the argument is, please don't nerf my main character or I won't play...?

That argument is: thanks to this necro, not a nerved one, me and different others can enjoy the game a lot more.

And you might want to read the rest of it too to find other arguments.

No I am not going to quit if you lower the stats. If the player community decides they feel it's best to lower that stats then I would stand by that collective decision. As far as my personal opinion, I'm not a fan of lowering stats on current classes, but I am for modifying stats to help make other classes more enjoyable to play. And yes, I am biased as I play necro and this thread is on lowering stats, but I would fight against anyone's class having their stats lowered. As for a necro, Blind/C2 are the main attack mechanisms I have, and lowering them makes them unusable to some degree. This was part of the reason I felt Warrior was inadequate at higher ranks.

My suggestion for Warrior

75 base Bless/EW/Pro - At minimum, this would bring closer to inline with Necro, Bless could be modified to maybe 90.
Raise Stun to 120 - This would fall in line with Necro Blind at 120. This would allow Warrior to have a higher attack mechanism instead of 60 base.
Raise Immunity to 120 - Even 105 Immunity, you get cursed/stun, but without having dispell, this would make up for it.
Raise Meditate to 30/60 - This would help with C2 Mana, and with lower 600 mana would be a nice compromise.

I can't speak to Sorcerer to much as I've never played the character, but since this is all for discussion.

Raise Compulsion to 120 - This aligns with AH and also is one of Sorc's main attacks.
Remove Regenerate and Add Dispel - AH don't have Regen, and not really a reason a Sorc would need it either

I don't usually comment on things like this cause it may sound like sour grapes, but here are my thoughts...

There is no way a NON RB Necro should be able to do things all other classes at RB2 can not do. Please don't talk about what you gave up to get a Necro when other classes give up at Least 162 MILLION to get to an RB2.

Specifically it is Ridiculous that a General Necro can make a Knight companion and rip through FDMs in AT. From that point on the Necro class make EXP so fast it's like they gave up NOTHING to get the Necro. No class should EVER be able to dump that much EXP into a GC and still stand surviving in FDMs.

Hara is the first GC class and some create the entire build around GC. Even a Fully maxed RB2 Warlord Arch Hara can only make an FDM GC at full max 387 power.

The Necro class is beyond unbalanced and needs to be corrected.

Having 75Bless/EW/Prot seems decent but would make them similar to a seyan counting in the spell bonus.
Stun to 120 would make them gods, would not be able to give them stun.
Warcry would be an alternative, we discussed this in game the other day.
Giving Warriors the option of Warcry as an Arch Skill so they can pick 3 out of 4 abilities (WC/C2/SH/DW) which 90% would switch C2 for WC.
Immunity is good bet, as wont break much.
Meditate to 30 doesnt seem bad idea, but if they got Warcry instead of C2 it would resolve mana problems.

Sorc's are bit weird as they have a unique playstyle.
so u cant judge/compare their strength to other classes.

agree with this the multiple GC thing is insane along with the different perks they get

Understand they sacrifice a lot but even a RB 1 seyan can't put up a good fight at equal rank of a necro with their pets

I originally played warr a while ago and they are a joke to play in this game along with sorc. Both of those classes need attention if they want to stay relevant

Is there a reason why this hasn't been acted upon exactly?

On this, I assume you mean, MarshMallowMan?