Yesterday i got my second profession on Mayhem which already had blacksmithing.
Since i already have a necro with harvesting... and a warrior with craft.. i chose alchemy...
I picked a purple flower and went to the alchemy guy to start leveling my alchemy...
When i made the mana potion it said: you cannot gain any level from this any more.. i was like huh
So i tried making the new spellpower potion... which needs the highest level alchemy of all the potion... and to my surprise ... poof! 1 spellpower potion in my inventory...
I knew straight away that this wasnt right... that it was a bug... so i didnt make any more spellpower potions and decided to report this bug asap (like it says in the rules)
To my surprise... this already was a known bug... but the gods/imps had no idea how to fix it.. so they just left it as is... instead of acting on it.

If i had known this bug... i would have never spend so much time (days!) in the harvesting area trying to level my crafting. And i can assure you... its a pain to level (it caused me to ragequit several times)
Crafting is BY FAR the hardest thing to level... so its fair to say that every RB2 will get either harvesting or blacksmithing up to level 45 (getting harvesting up to level 45 is pieces of cake as a noble) and take craft as second profession. (if you dont then your stupid!)
If i had known this bug... i would have RB2 my necro before my seyan.. since my necro has almost level 50 harvesting.
If i had known this bug... i woulndnt have had general warrior with millions of xp in crafting (which makes the warrior useless)

This bug was never communicated on forum or to me directly... so the people who knew could take advantage over the people who didnt have a clue
When i confronted lazywarrior about this... he didnt really think it was suchs a big advantage since "soulstoning is faster anyway!"
But the mats you need for titanium armor are just laying around and you can pick up 6 every 15 minutes.. ( i cant get 6 level 16/17 soulstones in 15 min.. im glad to get 1 in 15 min!) where all the other mats needed to be mined and have an extremely low droprate... that why its such a pain to level crafting.
And being able to craft your own titanium gear with +16/17 stats will give you a huge advantage in lets say PVP.. or having the giant barb on farm for the 2 scrolls or the ring. Even being able to pent/AT faster
Also you gain xp for the things you craft.. im not sure how much but i think 1 crafted tit armor piece will give around 4k xp
Those are pretty big advantages in my book.

Quote from lazywarrior on Discord


If its not a competitive game then why are you constantly trying to balance the different classes?

Im pissed off because i wasted shitloads of time trying to get my crafting up to a level where i can make decent armor. Where others got it completely for free. Thats unfair and basicly a middle finger to the ones doing it the way it was intended!

But im sad because of the response the team had when they realized there was a bug... and instead of acting on it.. they decided to leave it as is. Letting people (who knew about it!) exploit the living shit out of this bug.... Which is against their own rules and policy for crying out loud!
Not only that.. but lazy defended the decision that was made... "Cause if they had acted on it straight away by removing the 2nd profession for RB2 it would have pissed alot of people off"


It gives me an idea about the commitment some members of the team has nowadays towards the game. And that makes me sad.

What i think needs to happen is the 2nd profession should be removed... and all the data checked for those who gained these advantages and xp because of it. It will be a shitload of work but if you had acted straight away... the problem wouldnt have been this big
And if you guys wont do it... it will show not only me... but also the others the level of commitment you as a team have towards this game and how you act when people are exploiting bugs.
And then you prolly wont ever see me back again playing this game... not because i dont like it or because other players gained advantages instead of me ... but because of the way the team has (not) acted upon this bug.

We didn't think of saying it since for the most part high level profs were entirely useless, except for titanium which i was not aware was on a lower cooldown than everyone other high level mat for some reason.. So thanks for ignoring that entire part of that and quoting stuff out of context of why i said it.


PVP happens less than once a month.

You could also just use your easier to level prof(since its so much harder to do crafting) instead? They share exp so you can use either for that.. no advantage there whatsoever.

I said that because at the time i still did not realize titanium had 1/4 the cooldown of everything else its tier, so i was saying it still thinking it was a minor advantage.
Also being able to get something faster isnt the same as certain races doing every bit of content so much better then other races why play anything but that race.



We didn't realize immediately. Also the logs are massive and this would taken far too log to dig through them to delete peoples items and exp they spent time on.

Mayhem, i am not sure I understand what the bug is? Is it that RB2 2nd profession makes ranks useless and allows you to craft the item despite being lower level?

Your 2 professions share levels.

This doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. At best it saves you some time grinding. It's not like you're able to craft better items because of it.

Yes the 2nd profession you get as a RB2 will mimic the rank of the profession you already had (Blacksmithing in my case). So no need to farm materials. Get the crafting skill as your second profession... and it will be at the same level as the skill that you already had. And both gain the same level. If i make a blacksmith item.. it will raise the rank of blacksmith and the rank of craft. And if i craft 1 item i will gain a level for my blacksmithing aswell as for craft. Level 2 profession at the same time for the price of 1


Ok i might have taken that a little out of the context your right. But it shows the way you respond to almost everything lately and that was more the reason why i quoted it.
Motoko knew about this? He did the all professions and was the only one on server who could make titanium armor. Or wasnt he asked an opinion in this decision making?
You didnt decide to bring this bug out ..Big mistake imo... so the ones who didnt know the bug should just have raised the profession the normal (terribly slowly and legal) way? I can get a char to RB2 faster then i can level crafting upto 45. So why would i even bother putting time and effort in leveling crafting? And what about all the people who have raised a char just for it being a profession char?
I get the feeling you didnt bring it out because of all the shit you would get and all the work you had to do to to correct this bug.


Yes im aware but still it doesnt change the fact that the person who knew would have an advantage over the people who didnt know. Regardless of how many times something happens. It can happen. So that argument is completely irrelevant. And its just 1 of the examples that i mentioned.


I dont understand what your trying to say and what it has to do with my argument.
Lets say (this is an example before you start making comments like "you'd have to make about 200 tit pieces to get +wv in all slots) i make 6 tit armor pieces with +16 bonus... i can have a total of 48 more weaponvalue. unbuffed.. just by wearing the gear. 48 more weaponvalue is a huge gain for any melee class. And it will make you kill everything a whole lot faster. So you gain xp faster aswell.. that was my point.


yes i understand.. but in my case.. i have alot of titanium pellets (what you need to craft tit armor) stacked away for the time that my crafting would reach 40 or 45. If i had known this bug i could have been making the tit armor already.. so it would give me (personally) a nice XP boost.


So you guys decided to do nothing and only let the people who noticed the bug take advantage of it and the ones who didnt notice you just leave oblivious? I think that was a bad desicion. Doesnt this conflict with the rules that are on the website? the rules that the team wrote down to keep the game fair?

Quote from the website rules section:

We considered it not a bug, like some other things it ended up an unintended feature we have to accept exists.
And yes we did nothing, it was already multiple months in by the time we realized it, the logs save ALOT of info its completely unfeasible to even go through them looking for every crafting done and then track down every item made by rb2, and then manually figure out if all those items were deleted already or not, and then figure out if it was even crafted when it shouldn't have been possible without this bug. The number of items we'd have to check would be in the high hundreds or thousands. I cant ID individual items like that, would be entirely lava's job and he doesn't have time for that.

Ok why didnt you communicate this in the RB2 announcement topic... or or in change log?

You were just gonna sit back and laugh at the people trying to level up crafting the normal (intended way) while they have chars close to rb2? What were you gonna tell those people? nothing clearly... Did you look at your clanhall and see all armorpieces i made (upto emerald i think...While being a RB2 seyan for crying out loud!)
You have heard me complaining (ingame) about the insanely slow way of leveling the professions .. yet none of that caused you to inform me about this "bug" ? You could have told me but for some reason you didnt... you just left me completely in the dark... why?

I mean this 'bug' (which you as a team have decided is not a bug anymore because of all the work you had to put in to fix it.. right? ) changes so much for people.

The whole "you need atleast different 3 chars around noble to get your professions up to making decent armor" is not relevant anymore. That has probably been the biggest issue why people didnt start leveling it at the first place. Just make an RB2 (with first profession harvesting preferably since that is by far the easiest profession to level and then get crafting to the same level for free!) and it will save you literally days of hard and incredibly tedious work.
So that would certainly change the path people chose when it comes to leveling certain chars. And the way you would have raised those chars!

The topics about the droprates in the harvesting mines can be closed now because the main reason people were complaining about it is because of the slow rate of leveling your crafting. Well thats not an issue anymore. (if you had known about this "bug"!)
The profession guide (how to raise your professions) could (should) have been changed. Because no one needs to level craft anymore the way it was intended. (unless your an idiot or left oblivious)

Its not actual bug that is the biggest problem... I mean i can get my second profession changed and have the same benefits as others (although ive wasted days doing completely useless stuff as it turns out now which does piss me off)
What bugs me the most is the attitude 'the team' had towards this problem. And the way they (didnt) act(ed) on it. Not on the forum.. not ingame... giving some people huge(massive!) benefits over others.

I get the feeling that you (lazywarrior) just sit behind your computer and shrug your shoulders and think... Mweh.. well... it is what it is! Deal with it.

And that attitude seriously makes me reconsider if i ever wanna play this game again.

I already answered why we didn't communicate that several times, I didn't know titanium had a significantly lower cooldown than other mats so I still thought it was useless.
What do you want us to do? stop development for months(since the only person who can delete all the ill gained items doesn't have much time to play, and like I said this wouldn't even be easy to do.) over this? And make all the time they spent gathering those mats wasted?
Or just remove 2nd prof without removing the items and make it an actual unfair advantage that people could use but never use again?
Please tell me a solution that wont take months to fix, or make the problem even more unfair than it was. Yes it is what it is and we're gonna have to deal with it because the solutions are bigger problems than the current problem.

If this is the only reason why you didnt communicate this 'bug' Then you clearly didnt think it trough did you?
How does this reason your giving me, corresponds with the fact that you can have a second profession for free as a RB2? Its not just crafting im talking about.. this is concerning all the profession. Maybe you should read my comments again. Because it clearly didnt sink in yet. And im not gonna type em down again.




What do i want you to do? Well for starters you could show some sympathy. The same sympathy your asking me to have for the people who might have their items removed due to exploiting a bug that wasnt intended.
I didnt always follow the rules im not gonna lie.. but i never exploited a bug to improve my char over others. Where is your sympathy for the people who raised their profession the way it was intended? The people who spend shitloads of time and even ten of thousands of gold just to get their professions up.
While others got it for free (zero time spended for raising 1 profession and didnt have to pay even 1 piece of silver to get the double amount of level as the ones who did it the legal way.. You want me to show sympathy for them?)

"the time they spend gathering those mats wasted" Wait what?!! What about the people who raised their professions as intended. Im 1000% sure they have spended more time in the harvesting mines then the ones who got their profession for free. And are still not even close to the level of the people who have gotten their profession for free. Yes not only the levels for free... but they didnt have to spend 1 silver either! Where others had to spend thousands of gold.


The problem got this big because you didnt act on it when you discovered it. But yeah...
And dont ever talk about it being 'unfair' again... since you basicly give a middle finger to everyone who did it the way it was intended. "yeah you did it the legal way but its unfair to take away the benefits of the 3 or 4 other people who got it for free.... you might have spended shitloads of time and gold by doing it the way it the right way... but its 'unfair' to the ones who used a bug". Thats basicly what your saying.

I would say yes... remove the second profession for rb2 completely. If your afraid it pisses 'alot' of people off so be it. There are still waaay more people who raised their profession as intended then the ones didnt. I dont have to remind you that the way it is now.. it was not how you guys intended it to be.
So i think people will have sympathy for the solution.. and if they dont.. you can show em this topic.
And yes... If its really that much work...let em keep the items they crafted so they cant complain about "wasted time farming mats" if people benefitted from it, then they just got lucky. It might be abit unfair to the ones that didnt use this bug to their advantage.. but its waaaaay more unfair to the people who leveled their professions as intended.
That way they cant complain at all imo. Its only 3 or 4 people we are talking about that have used this to their advantage. Im sure thats easy to explain.
Maybe they will complain cause you removed the second profession.. but im pretty sure it was not the reason for most of us to RB2.

Id love to have another god/imp/staffers opinion on this topic aswell since i dont feel that im getting trough to lazy. Maybe its because english is not my native language or that my sentences are abit weird and off.. i dont know.

About your saying its not the "legal" way, yes it is. Just because it was unintended and later became something we decided not to change doesn't make it not the legal way.

Guess I'm done with this conversation since we clearly won't agree.

It became legal because it was the most convenient thing for you guys to do. Without giving it serious thoughts about the consequences.
And by not informing people about it ... makes it look that you wanted to hide it. Probably cause you cant explain this to the people who leveled professions the way it was intended.

Too bad that you dont wanna continue the conversation...cause i really feel i have some other strong comments which id love a response to...
Unfortunately you only comment on things you have an answer to

I just realized how this will benefit you.

Your the only one with 2 rb2's if im not mistaken... And you didnt put much time in profession yet... And by keeping it as is... you can level 4 professions for the price of 2 once you feel the need to. (half the time/gold and even half the frustration!)
So why change it right?
Screw the others and the time and the thousands and thousands of gold they put into it... this suits you perfectly!

I think this might be the reason why your so stubborn and totally not objective about this... and thats why the decision of not acting upon was so easy to make.

You never were a real teamplayer ingame when it came to doing stuff together... i dont mind that.. but by you getting the position your in now... It feels like you dont mind screwing other people over for just for your own convenience.

You can speculate all u want on why I wanted to hide it, but honestly I just didn't think to add it to the announcements.


You're the one who said you wanted to talk to someone else about this instead of me, I just agreed that is probably a good idea since we clearly wont agree on this.



I don't do metal proffs at all, as u can see my smith and craft alts are quite low level.
Also I already have an alt for every proff, this doesn't even benefit me at all.
Infact I haven't even touched professions since it came out.. so yea, please don't just say I'm trying to hide it for me when I have not even used it at all.(and don't plan to since i already have every SS piece i need minus bless ew gear, which this doesn't help.)

I'm done with the conversation since you're pretty much just gonna try to say I'm a corrupt because we forgot to announce something.

I will be honest, the response isn't as appreciated given the history of situations in which some players have been given or have had certain advantages. No names no point but here is the reality. It is quite obviously a bug but something that was decided not to be worked on and left as is for what I imagine is the complexity of the bug. Does it affect anyone? Not really. There are currently 11 characters that have access to this bug. 3 of them are imp alts. And the other characters had already leveled skills to a certain point prior to reaching RB2.

The problem is if someone who knew about the bug casually gave information to another player. Had this issue been shared, no one would've cared. Can someone really go in the logs to fix "punish" someone for a design flaw? I don't think so. Nor is it worth losing players for it. Can we just leave it at an apology for not making this public or something? We already know the rules in this server are stupid and against group play but let's not lose players over trivial matters either.

You know, there are much bigger issues unresolved than this and it probably won't go the way you want either. Never does

Anyway I think there is a lot of anger here that should be talked out though. Good luck

I will add another point which is;

We have been playing this game for 20+ years. Can we just have fun with it? I was super upset about how uniques were handled, I quit out of anger. At that point a player abused a bug which destroyed my guild due to anger and blah blah. Eventually, got my toon deleted, lost my fire set, lost my shadow helm, lost the gear i spent hundreds of hours working on and all that did was punish me. I got irritated and stop playing a game I love with lots of people that I enjoy talking to. In the end, some things we need to brush over if not we end up losing.